00:00:07 <keverets> #startmeeting 
00:00:07 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: Meeting started at 2022-04-20T00:00+0000
00:00:08 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: Current chairs: keverets
00:00:09 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: Useful commands: #action #info #idea #link #topic #motion #vote #close #endmeeting
00:00:10 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: See also: https://hcoop-meetbot.readthedocs.io/en/stable/
00:00:21 <keverets> #topic attendance
00:00:31 <keverets> wonder if the "here" command works
00:00:35 <unknown_lamer> ah, my session like ... died. it actually applied my changes
00:00:38 <unknown_lamer> #here clinton
00:00:42 <keverets> #here keverets
00:00:50 <smichel17> #here smichel
00:00:58 <robin> #here bpt
00:01:10 <smichel17> oh wait, I'm actually smichel17 on hcoop… does that matter? :P
00:01:28 <keverets> it's an alias that shows up in the log (if it's working correctly)
00:01:35 <keverets> so you could use a real name instead, too
00:01:44 <smichel17> cool
00:01:50 <keverets> is layline around?
00:02:05 <robin> does unknown_lamer's #here work with the preceding space?
00:02:39 <keverets> will find out, I guess, though I don't see a preceding space on my end
00:03:16 <keverets> will give 1 more minute for attendance, then move on
00:03:18 <robin> oh nm, hexchat's just displaying it oddly
00:03:43 <robin> (with a narrow column for nicks)
00:04:15 <keverets> #topic agenda
00:04:24 <keverets> #info Elect officers so we can file with Pennsylvania by April 30
00:04:34 <keverets> #info Discuss possible outreach to mayfirst.coop
00:04:42 <keverets> any other agenda additions?
00:04:47 <unknown_lamer> fine by me
00:05:02 <robin> sounds good
00:06:10 <smichel17> +1
00:06:14 <keverets> #topic officer election
00:06:22 <keverets> #info description of duties: https://wiki.hcoop.net/BoardMemberDuties
00:06:41 <keverets> will start with president
00:07:01 <keverets> anyone want to volunteer?
00:07:04 <unknown_lamer> anyone but me is fine
00:07:19 <unknown_lamer> I can do treasurer for another yearish, but I am not in a great position to take on more responsibilities right now
00:07:35 <smichel17> Uhh, hate to derail, but is anyone else getting a 403 on that wiki page?
00:07:45 <keverets> yes, wiki is down
00:08:03 <keverets> "You don't have permission to access this resource."
00:08:14 <smichel17> Maybe puppet doing its thing?
00:08:16 <unknown_lamer> it literally happened 3 minutes ago, wheeee
00:08:17 <robin> yes, wiki *just* went down
00:08:22 <unknown_lamer> not puppet
00:08:27 <unknown_lamer> I was gonna link to board member duties
00:09:12 <robin> i have an open tab of it, 1sec
00:09:13 <unknown_lamer> gibran is unresponsive again, even recovery console. grrrrr.
00:09:27 <unknown_lamer> I guess the server it's on went down again, wheee
00:09:40 <smichel17> Maybe we should add a topic to discuss server instability?
00:10:13 <unknown_lamer> that's not really a board issue
00:10:17 <unknown_lamer> also this is 100% digital ocean
00:10:28 <unknown_lamer> two outages in less than two weeks, wth.
00:10:34 <unknown_lamer> after nearly 0 in several years
00:10:54 <unknown_lamer> literally gibran was migrated online once before this, and they sent us an email 20 minutes beforehand etc.
00:11:07 <robin> https://paste.debian.net/1238424/ has president and secretary duties (treasurer: "Processes payments, Creates new user accounts after receiving initial payment" with more instructions on another wiki page)
00:11:33 <smichel17> Depending on how severly it affects the co-op (e.g. members quitting), I'd say it could be a board issue :shrug:
00:12:02 <keverets> the board can make decisions, it can't solve technical difficulties
00:12:08 <unknown_lamer> recovery console down means the server it is on is down, something over which we have no power. i will contact their support about the the outages unless someone else wants to
00:12:33 <unknown_lamer> anyway, we can't do anything about this, digital ocean is down. so may as well elect officers.
00:12:36 <keverets> it could decide to spend money on, say, a load balancer between 2 hosting providers to prevent future downtime (or something like that)
00:12:46 <robin> i don't think we should deal with it in this meeting
00:12:53 <keverets> I agree
00:13:05 <smichel17> okay. I suppose the mayfirst topic is tangentially related, anyway
00:13:07 <keverets> back to officers... is the paste sufficient?
00:13:10 <unknown_lamer> I have to leave in 20 minutes to get groceries ideally
00:13:21 <smichel17> :O okay let's get a move on then. Paste works.
00:13:53 <keverets> alright, any volunteers for president?
00:14:04 <unknown_lamer> (fwiw DO dashboard just updated with a big read DROPLET ISSUE)
00:14:14 <unknown_lamer> seems icmp gets through but nothing else, bleh.
00:14:32 <smichel17> I'd prefer not to be an officer, but I could do pres or secretary if needed
00:14:53 <robin> i plan to volunteer for just secretary this year; would prefer not to volunteer for president unless nobody else will
00:15:35 <smichel17> Anyone besides unknown_lamer plan to volunteer as treasurer?
00:15:54 <smichel17> I'll volunteer for president before robin
00:15:58 <keverets> I'm ineligible for treasurer (due to being in Canada)
00:16:28 <robin> not planning to volunteer for treasurer either
00:16:29 <smichel17> So since Layline isn't here, it comes down to: keverets, do you volunteer for president or shall I?
00:16:41 <unknown_lamer> (DO update: "
00:16:41 <unknown_lamer> Events for this Droplet are currently disabled while the hypervisor is under maintenance.
00:16:41 <unknown_lamer> ")
00:17:17 <keverets> #info nominate smichel17 for board president
00:17:25 <unknown_lamer> works for me
00:17:37 <keverets> hmm... maybe that was supposed to be a #motion
00:17:53 <keverets> oh, maybe after someone seconds
00:18:00 <smichel17> 🤷️
00:18:16 <robin> seconded (thirded?)
00:18:18 <smichel17> (let's see if meetbot has utf support :D)
00:18:35 <robin> yes, #motion, #vote, #close according to the readthedocs
00:18:44 <keverets> #motion appoint smichel17 as president
00:18:44 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: Voting is open
00:18:46 <keverets> #vote +1
00:18:49 <robin> (#vote +1 or #vote -1)
00:18:54 <robin> #vote +1
00:18:58 <smichel17> #vote +1
00:19:03 <unknown_lamer> #vote +1
00:19:08 <keverets> #close 
00:19:08 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: Motion accepted: 4 in favor to 0 opposed
00:19:09 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: In favor: keverets, robin, smichel17, unknown_lamer
00:19:10 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: Opposed:
00:19:15 <unknown_lamer> neato
00:19:29 <keverets> #info nominate robin as secretary
00:19:42 <smichel17> #info seconded
00:19:52 <keverets> #motion appoint robin as board secretary
00:19:52 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: Voting is open
00:19:56 <keverets> #vote +1
00:20:04 <smichel17> #vote +1
00:20:05 <robin> #vote +1
00:20:10 <unknown_lamer> #vote +1
00:20:12 <keverets> #close 
00:20:12 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: Motion accepted: 4 in favor to 0 opposed
00:20:13 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: In favor: keverets, smichel17, robin, unknown_lamer
00:20:14 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: Opposed:
00:20:29 <keverets> #info nominate unknown_lamer as board treasurer
00:20:44 <smichel17> #info nominate unknown_lamer as treasurer
00:21:01 <smichel17> ah crap, polari didn't scroll
00:21:02 <robin> (fwiw, i mostly want to make sure all our papers are scanned and online, and make sure everything is documented well for the next secretary)
00:21:10 <smichel17> consider that a second, then :P
00:21:25 <keverets> #motion appoint unknown_lamer as treasurer
00:21:25 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: Voting is open
00:21:28 <keverets> #vote +1
00:21:31 <robin> #vote +1
00:21:31 <unknown_lamer> #vote +1
00:21:34 <smichel17> #vote +1
00:21:37 <keverets> #close 
00:21:37 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: Motion accepted: 4 in favor to 0 opposed
00:21:38 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: In favor: keverets, robin, unknown_lamer, smichel17
00:21:39 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: Opposed:
00:21:59 <keverets> #topic Discuss possible outreach to mayfirst.coop
00:22:03 <keverets> smichel17: you have the floor
00:22:39 <smichel17> May First is one of the only organizations that operates in the same space as us
00:22:55 <smichel17> meaning: hosting, cooperative, software freedom values
00:23:37 <smichel17> (that last point is important because many co-ops don't really get software freedom, or non-scarcity generally; they focus on benefits for members only)
00:24:18 <smichel17> On one hand, hcoop has been struggling a bit recently, technically / in terms of admin bandwidth
00:25:08 <smichel17> Even just to keep the lights on, although I know we also have aspirations to increase the coop offerings
00:25:51 <smichel17> On the other hand, May First is a slightly larger org than us. I think we have something like 70 active members, and they have something like 500?
00:26:00 <robin> 700ish
00:26:08 <robin> but yeah
00:26:34 <smichel17> They are also, as of a few weeks ago, in the process of re-doing some of their tech stack
00:26:53 <keverets> I'm not sure there's alignment in mission. May First seems to be activist focused (which has challenges such as ddos target, extra maintenance, etc), HCoop is purely shared hosting. Would coordinating be mutually beneficial in some way?
00:28:08 <smichel17> I could imagine sharing maintenance on some tech stack
00:28:41 <keverets> what's your interaction with them?
00:28:53 <robin> imho hcoop is somewhat political just by being a coop, and has hosted activist stuff before (and i'm working to get more activists using hcoop, though not too successfully yet)
00:28:57 <smichel17> I haven't made direct contact with them yet, only talked to someone at agaric.coop about them
00:30:02 <keverets> if they're looking for a hosting provider then it may make sense, but there are technical issues that need to be sorted out with hcoop first
00:30:53 <smichel17> One of the reasons I've waited to make contact was to get a sense of how deeply we'd be willing to collaborate.. up to and including merging orgs
00:31:12 <keverets> I would not consider merging orgs without clear mission alignment
00:31:33 <keverets> I'm not sure we're in a position to collaborate much at this time, either
00:31:40 <smichel17> I would not consider it without some lower-stakes collaboration, first
00:31:56 <robin> it may also make sense to cooperate politically, say opposing EARN-IT which iiuc is anti-cryptography (not sure we've taken political positions before)
00:32:16 <unknown_lamer> need to start getting ready to head out, it seems DO is booting gibran in theory...
00:32:22 <unknown_lamer> this is even worse than the last outage
00:32:25 <keverets> :/
00:32:38 <smichel17> As I said to start things off, they're the most aligned org that I know of.
00:32:51 <keverets> that doesn't mean they're aligned enough to proceed, though
00:33:01 <smichel17> agreed
00:33:19 <keverets> is there some decision you want to get out of this discussion?
00:33:20 <smichel17> was in the middle of typing something to that effect, and is just a slightly slower typist than keverets
00:34:02 <smichel17> I could imagine something like us outsourcing some offerings to them
00:34:15 <smichel17> e.g. they run a shared nextcloud instance for members
00:35:17 <robin> i think it would make sense to reach out directly and maybe just explore areas where we would collaborate, which is a big possibility-space
00:35:18 <smichel17> I don't know if I have anything concrete I want, maybe just a brainstorm of ways to collaborate that we'd be interested in
00:36:00 <robin> (or the other way around ;) brainstorm before reaching out)
00:36:15 <keverets> alright. For the purposes of this meeting, then, we can decide to contact them and see if they're even interested in collaboration
00:36:24 <smichel17> Or gauge interest— if we don't want to work with them at all, not much point of reaching out :P
00:37:09 <keverets> if so, some representatives from both sides can brainstorm ideas on what that collaboration might look like, come to some plan, then the respective boards can have a concrete thing to vote on
00:37:22 <keverets> if we have no interest in reaching out, that's fine, too
00:38:05 <smichel17> Sounds good to me, and I would volunteer to be the person who does the initial outreach (but would prefer not to be the only person in the secondary brainstorming)
00:39:04 <smichel17> FWIW, I think merging orgs is highly unlikely
00:39:08 <smichel17> just timing-wise
00:39:16 <keverets> #motion contact mayfirst.coop to explore collaboration
00:39:16 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: Voting is open
00:39:42 <robin> #vote +1
00:39:46 <keverets> #vote -1
00:39:57 <smichel17> #vote +1
00:40:05 <keverets> is unknown_lamer still present?
00:40:36 <smichel17> They just finished their official incorporation as a cooperative, so I doubt they'd want to change anything now
00:40:37 <keverets> appears not
00:41:00 <keverets> #close 
00:41:00 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: Motion accepted: 2 in favor to 1 opposed
00:41:01 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: In favor: robin, smichel17
00:41:02 <hcoop-meetbot> keverets: Opposed: keverets
00:41:14 <keverets> alright, motion carried
00:41:34 <keverets> any last topics before adjourning?
00:41:36 <smichel17> Is the opposition because we're lacking technical resources to make anything happen?
00:41:40 <smichel17> Or some other reason
00:42:18 <smichel17> #info smichel17 will make initial contact with May First
00:42:21 <robin> i +1'd because just pinging them is basically zero-risk, we'd have to have more discussion for anything concrete
00:42:21 <keverets> just don't think we're in a position to coordinate on things yet. We need to sort out our technical issues, etc
00:42:31 <robin> that's fair too, though
00:42:46 <keverets> so it may be premature to reach out to them. But low harm as well, I guess
00:42:56 <smichel17> I could imagine some early collaboration being just sharing info about how we overcame similar challenges
00:43:20 <keverets> that's fine... it just takes effort and it's hard enough to get focused time and effort into the things the coop already needs
00:43:25 <smichel17> e.g. do they have similar spamassassin problems?
00:44:11 <keverets> alright, if there are no other topics then we can close
00:44:12 <unknown_lamer> sorry running around getting ready
00:44:16 <keverets> no worries
00:44:20 <unknown_lamer> gibran stuck in powered off and won't come back online
00:44:29 <unknown_lamer> I have no real opinion either way at this time anyway
00:44:29 <keverets> that's less than ideal
00:44:54 <keverets> #endmeeting